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  • We all know he is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium of Man in the 41st millennium. But, who was he before the story we know of him? Who was he before the Unification Wars, and what were his feats on Terra?

    My personal theory is that he was the one remembered as Conan the Barbarian.

    Consider the floor open for discussion and speculations.

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    • The Emperor supposedly started the majority of popular religions on Old Terra. Therefore The Emperor might be jesus...

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    • Conan???? Well they do say his powers unfolded gradually. He could have started out as a barbarian warrior, who is in fact a good bit smarter than he's given credit for.

      I very much doubt that Empy was Moses or Jesus or Mohammed simply because all those faiths started among small, unimportant tribes or nations. Moses preached to a few thousand wandering Beduin. Jesus was one of a number of 'prophets' in 1st. c. Judea and long after his death Christianity was a subversive faith found among peasants and slaves. Mohammed belonged to a people who'd spent their entire history battling each other at the sandy end of nowhere. 

      Zoroastrianism on the other hand that was for a thousand years or more the religion of one of the mightiest Empires on Earth (the Persian/Sassanian) seems a real possibility especially given its dualistic nature Truth/Lie and non-deistic character. And I wouldn't be surprised if Empy weren't responsible for the Mithraic cult that spread through the Roman empire, especially the Legions. I wonder if one of the reasons he's so down on religion is that all his lost out to 'wild' faiths like Christianity and Islam.

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    • `Mithraism` or the god `Mithra`, who slew the bull `Yahweh`, which is a symbolism for god, so basically Mithraism is high leve pagan sun worship, whith ties to Satanism. I doubt The Emperor had anything to do with that.

      Most people would be suprised as to how far `modern` christianity has deviated from its original message, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnosticism and Islam are an indirect form of Satan and Pagan worship. I dare any religious people get in an argument with me on that.

      The Emperor was working mostly behind the scenes, pulling the strings and so forth. The `Dark Age of technology was probably the result of His well intended manipulations on Humanity. For that reason He could have posed as any number of leaders, both religious or political, and shaped history in a number of ways.

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    • Mithraism was a syncretic religion based on the mythos of the young god Mithra who was identified with light and famously slew a bull it was also a secretive sect which is why little of it's theology or ritual is known today. It was further extremely popular with the Roman Legions - which is why I wonder if Empy might have had something to do with it. The Mithraic cult would have enabled him to manipulate the military leadership of the late Empire behind the scenes. I suspect it was always Empy strategy to work from the top down through the governing elites. Mystery cults would have been a wonderful means to influence those elites.

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    • Conan hates mages and all kinds of psychics - it would never be him. Elric maybe;)

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    • The god Mithra is one of the names of Lucifer throught which he is indirectly worshipped by all religions, exept only one, and pagan worship. The time pagan worship was oficially joined with Christianity was during the time of Emperor Constantine in the Roman empire. He attempted to synthesize both pagan worship an Christianity in order to relieve tensions between the two factions. Mithra is just one of the surnames for Lucifer along with Zeus, Apollo, Isis, Horus, Set,Buddha and just about every other `god` that has been worshipped. All of these charactes share multiple traits, and are the same entity.

      Fun Fact. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention that Jesus is born on decempber 25, infact it says that He was born in the summer. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that Sunday is the day to worship God, it says that the day for that is Saturday. Easter is a pagan festival dedicated to the worship of the Sun and the pagan god Ishtar, none of these `hollidays` have anything to do with Jesus or True Christianity. Am am an atheist to the Bone, and i can tell you that no other religion has been mangled the same way as Christianity.

      Kadjah Thoris your Intellect is starting to become very seductive for me (Oh God please be a woman), if you feel like discussing anything then feel free to leave a message on the talk page. Thanks for being Interesting.

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    • 87.74.76.185 wrote:
      Conan hates mages and all kinds of psychics - it would never be him. Elric maybe;)

      In which case he should definitely have told Fulgrim that talking swords are SERIOUS bad news.

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    • k.... so what other mythic heroes or men of notoriety from ancient times might the Big E have been....?

      HMMMmmmm... Maybe he was... LEONIDAS!

      Or, to twist things around some, maybe he was... Xerxes!

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    • More likely the guy behnd Xerxes' throne. It is very probable that we wouldn't recognize any of Empy's earlier identities as up to the Ages of Strife he prefered to work behind the scenes. To His infinite credit he seems to be morally committed to the concept of ordinary men ruling themselves and regarded his assumption of the title Emperor of Mankind a necessary and desperate expedient but apparently retirement, along with his sons, once he'd gotten mankind sorted was always his intention.

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    • My guess is that the only time The Emperor acted in the open was when he became The Emperor. It is most likely that He was responsible, and controlling prominent people throught history from behind the scenes, therefore there could be no other persona besides The Emperor by which He stepped out from the shadows.

      My money is on Spartacus, and yes i did just watch it. Or Alexander the Great, i personally would focus on military leaders.

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    • More likely Empy was Cyrus the Great whose origins and eventual fate are both more than slightly mysterious. Cyrus was Alexander's hero and role model.

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    • He is secretly a Necron flayed one in disguise!

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    • Or you know... An Old One seeking to save the Galaxy from their previous mistakes? (Such as causing a war that birthed the Chaos Gods)

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    • He was certainly not an old one, but probably knew more on them than most, and was involved with the Cabal, which probably does have `old ones` as members.

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    • The Emperor was certainly not Jesus, he talks about his religion (christianity) in one of the HH novels, that how dumb it was and stuff. 

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    • He does not care if people believe in gods (I mean this is 40k so there are in fact gods) what he wants is people to know theat hey can rise up to gods, rule over themselves and do not have to pray to some diety... I wonder how long old Emps has been trying to sabotage chaos for? it says in some texts that when he was born the chaos gods did everything in their power  to kill him which raises the question, if he was a baby then who was protecting him? The Old Ones? Ancient Humans? By this point any race who hates chaos may have decided that he was worth protecting, as far as we know it could've been some awoken Necrons who saw the logic in protecting him...

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    • Maybe he was afusion of Eldar and Human, an Old Ones experiment to create the perfect human?

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    • Good idea but no... we know how he was created what we want to know is who he was, not what...

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    • Hmmm, I have two options: the first ever psyker

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    • the other one being that he's just a human gifted with extraordinary powers by the Eldar gods because they saw what he could become.

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    • All of these are good ideas but...The Emperor was no where near the first psyker, the oldest known psyker is probably an Old One... The Emperor has his power because he is the combined essense and power of thousands of ancient human psykers

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    • Ok, maybe he's a rejected/twisted/failed/unique/last old one?

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    • TomB12 wrote: Ok, maybe he's a rejected/twisted/failed/unique/last old one?

      That would be a cool twist!

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    • would not work with his geneaology.  he is said to have been born on earth from the essence of psykers, since the old ones spread the psyker gene, that hardly works.  they precede him too much.

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    • TomB12 wrote:
      Maybe he was afusion of Eldar and Human, an Old Ones experiment to create the perfect human?

      HERESY *BLAM* Emperor is the collective unconscious of thousands of shaman soul like the anti-spiral of gurren lagann. He was born in prrobably the time of ice age. He is a pre-hisotical caveman immortal just like Vandal Savage of DC universe.

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    • well old ones destributed psyker genes ^^

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    • I think the empy is really nimrod from the tower of babel.

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    • He was Confucius (against deities, big on beauracracy, created order from choas, etc) although Confucianism isn't, has never been, and will never be a religion ever ever ever ever....ever

      and Lao-zi (legalist = humans are assholes and need to be ruled firmly)

      also please people read the Emprah's history/origin before making stuff up about how he was created.

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    • to ponder on who he was is fallacy and utter unending folly.     want to know who he was?   let me try to explain.

      you know that weird feeling you get when you see a random guy in a crowd? as if that guy had been staring at you, and turned away when you looked?      that was him.

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    • As if you could look upon him and not instantly recognize his superiority and divinity. It is near Heresy to say that the Emprah is just "one of us" pathetic humans.

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    • And yet he could pass as one of us for millenia. Obviously Empy wasn't always eight feet tall and encased in golden armor. In fact one wonders if he was eight feet tall OUT of that armor....

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    • Well he was secluded or psychically disguised because he was always 8 feet tall and dashingly handsome. A picture of him next to Malcador shows him dwarfing Malcador, who wasn't a small guy.

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    • i am sure he had a method in which to keep himself out of awed eyes.  and its not so much that i think he was "one of us"  but more that he wanted us to think him as such. 

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    • 87.74.76.185 wrote: Conan hates mages and all kinds of psychics - it would never be him. Elric maybe;)

      =

      So did The Emperor, he is in fact The Anathaema. In the council of Nikea he expressly prohibited Magnus from practicing warp-craft and sanctioned the further use of Psykers and the like.

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    • Ah But Conan never used or relied on magic to do anything - Empy certainly does :)

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    • Well Empy is the closest thing a "human," has gotten to being the physical incarnation of psychic power...

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    • Marshall Silverman Said:

      "Most people would be suprised as to how far `modern` christianity has deviated from its original message, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnosticism and Islam are an indirect form of Satan and Pagan worship. I dare any religious people get in an argument with me on that."

      Challenge accepted.

      This probably isn't all his argument but it is all he gives.

      "Fun Fact. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention that Jesus is born on decempber 25, infact it says that He was born in the summer. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that Sunday is the day to worship God, it says that the day for that is Saturday. Easter is a pagan festival dedicated to the worship of the Sun and the pagan god Ishtar, none of these `hollidays` have anything to do with Jesus or True Christianity. Am am an atheist to the Bone, and i can tell you that no other religion has been mangled the same way as Christianity."

      Silverman seems to be under the impression this is a faith shaking revelation. He'd be surprised then to learn that Christians know all of this. Ancient Christians adapted pagan holidays to their ideas. So what? That doesn't mean Christians actually worship Ishtar on Easter or ever did. With that sort of logic, he might as well say that atheists who spend time with family on Christmas are actually celebrating Jesus' birth.

      The following claim deserves special attention:

      "And nowhere in the Bible does it say that Sunday is the day to worship God, it says that the day for that is Saturday."

      Once again, not a big secret. However, our atheist agitator doesn't realize this is an argument that even the earliest Christians believed in the ressurection of Christ. They (being almost entirely Jewish) near universally switched their day of worship to sunday in commemoration of the miracle. Wouldn't have happened if that belief was fabricated later on. Also, Acts 20:7 indicates even the earliest believers worshipped on sunday.

      So, we recognize these Holidays as human inventions. No one ever said they were anything else. No one ever thought they were divine revelations.

      Well, that's an answer to your challenge. Here's a challenge for you. Since you're so spectacularly wrong on this, consider whether you might have rushed to shoddy conclusions on your other beliefs.

      Disvedana.

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    • not going to get into an argument about religion (although I really want to, to be dead honest) but I WILL say that I think he was king arthur. Or king richard the lionheart. The latter is more likely.

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    • as far as i remember, sunday is linked to genesis and the 7th day that god rested... now jews simply started counting the week on a different day, using sabbat as the end of the week, whereas christians somewhere switched to counting form monday onwards ( julian calendar or what was it, i cannot remember atm) ^^

      besides: every religion adapted stuff form others, like the jews took stuff from aton worship in egypt or basic rules form oold babylonian (UR) laws and the likes) ^^

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    • Gotta say, I do kinda fall into the idea that Empy might have been behind the non-theistic faiths (and regretted making them, see the bushido monks of Japan and the endless rejections of Con-fu-zi), still, I do wonder, does he rember any of his own history? Does he remeber living in the 21st century when he looks upon the desolate wastes of Terra? Or is it all a blur and hes basically bludgeoning through history without looking back at his own godawful failures like the Federation and now the Imperium?

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    • I think he was a behind the scenes guy, like Kane from Command & Conquer, he is an advisor to Stalin during the events of Red Alert, but doesn't become a major character until the time period the Tiberium Wars takes place in.

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    • Suggesting the Emperor started various religions has the obvious negative outlook on the religion but it also makes atheism look rather foolish. "Those miracles weren't caused by God, just by some psychic superbeing." It makes it sounds as though the view doesn't have any real arguments supporting it.

      The Emperor being around for all of human history also knocks on our ingenuity. If we ever did anything worthwhile, it's all attributed to the Big E. The following theory attempts to work around this.

      Emperor was born in 8th millenium BC as is generally accepted. At about 1000 BC, mankind has had bronze working for a couple thousand years and is beginning on iron. There's a gradual population increase. Overall, nothing much is happening. Big E knows about other races in the galaxy by his psychic powers, so he teleports off for some extended recon.

      While spending centuries travelling the stars, he notes the extreme danger of the galaxy. His powers alert him to the Void Dragon attacking Earth, so he returns about AD 1000. After defeating the C'tan, he caches it on Mars so as to keep it from inspiring technology in mankind. (If he had wanted that, he would have locked it under the Himalayas.) At that time, he plans to ensure man's survival by keeping him in a primitive state and hiding him from the horrors of the galaxy. He embarks on a thousand year crusade to eradicate all xenos civilizations in the systems close to Earth, just to be on the safe side. (Notice how in real life we haven't had any alien contacts?)

      He returns either now or a couple centuries in the future to find that mankind was a bit cleverer than he expected and has created a thriving industrial civilization. Impressed, the Emperor changes the plan to 'wait and see what mankind comes up with'.

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    • To put it in a nutshell; The Emperor is Alexander the Great, Albert Einstein and Jesus all rolled into one godlike galaxy-conquering package who is in need of some SERIOUS parenting advice.

      Tell me I'm wrong.

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    • You are not wrong.

      Like I said before Empy's got tons of faults and made some HUGE mistakes, but everything he's done has ALWAYS been for Humanity. But remember what they say abotu good intentions.

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    • The Emperor's many guises thoughout history included Henry Ford and Beowolf.

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    • The Emperor is probably just all the big figures in myths and religion, and the real world(Eintein etc etc) fused into 1 being

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    • Not much but Horus said "It was made in Persia, the year befor the emperor was born." So we at least know that he was alive before the fall of the Persian empire.

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    • He is the son of Abel, As in Cain and Abel the first 2 sons of Adam and Eve. I read somewhere that his father was slain by his Uncle so I think that might be it.

      That or he is Simba, his father was murdered by his uncle too

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    • A FANDOM user
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