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  • This is a question that's been picking at me for a while now as I read up on the lore: who is the oldest mortal space marine still alive?

    We know that space marines tend to live for a good couple centuries at least and there's no record of one dying of old age, so I'm assuming that space marines/chaos space marines are functionally immortal (or just die in battle before they can age too much a la grimdark), so who's the oldest living one?

    My candidates are...

    Kharn the Betrayer (read some lore that he was born on Terra in what is now (IRL) Germany, or at least where the population is apparently strongly nordic, possibly meaning that he's an OG space marine.

    Abbadon the Despoiler: He's been around since at least Horus' discovery.

    Fabius Bile: Not sure exactly how old he is, but the dude's definitely one of the older chaos space marines kicking about.

    Bjorn the Fell Handed: Oldest living loyalist space marine around, he's been there since the Horus Heresy.

    NOTES: This excludes space marines who have become daemon princes or the primarchs.

    So, what do you guys think?

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    • Well, it's stated in canon that Bjorn is the oldest living loyalist SM. There may be Traitors who can match his age (the Legion of the Damned novel states that World Eaters who fought at Istvaan - and were maybe around earlier - were present on Certus-Minor) but I don't know if we have a canon source for that.

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    • the problem with chaos marine ages is that since they reside on warp-influenced worlds they may not be as old as 'real-time' suggests: time in the warp doesn't technically exist, or at least it doesn't exist in the same manner as realspace time, and this time distortion affects worlds in and around warp-ed regions - eye of terror, maelstrom etc. so while abbadon may have been around for 10,000 years he may have only lived for 500 years in 'realspace-time'.

      bjorn was around at the heresy but he was almost killed, and since then he's been interred in a mobile life-support system :)

      but in terms of real-time age and still fully functional then the award has to go to dante of the blood angels - 1,100 years and counting.

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    • Kharn the Betrayer is pretty old. He was around on Terra before the Great Crusade and he's still around in the 41st millennium. But because of his turning to Khorne, he likely does not remember most of his history.

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    • do we mean alive physically or in suspended animation/warp?  aka biological vs siderial

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    • 93.220.26.224 wrote:
      do we mean alive physically or in suspended animation/warp?  aka biological vs siderial

      Either way, long as they can technically be considered alive and active.

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    • Technically, I think you would have to go with some of the very few Terran born Chaos SMs that survived the inital Istavaan purge or perhaps some of the early non-terran Chaos SMs. 

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    • Karne was not the oldest because even though he was Terran born he was recruited into the Warhounds a tad later than it's founding after their blood thirsty culture was established.  

      Hard to say the oldest because again there are still many living Unification War Terran Born Chaos SMs in various states of health (or decay).

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    • Well, in the Salamanders books they mention an old Salamander that had armor that was extremely old, so, even though he died in the books, he was still probably older than most.

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    • However, he is dead, so he doesn't really count.

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    • zahariel of the dark angels.. simply because he spent ~ 10 millenia in hibernation on pandorax and in m 30 or m31 he went to titan and titan was psychiccally removed from the universe, prolonging his life by another 1 or 2 centuries ( by the time the DA were found)

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    • What about Merir Astelan  ?

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    • There was a Salamader Space Marine called Gravius of Heresy era found by SGT Dak'ir of the Salamanders Nick Kyme's trilogy. Gravius sat imobile in the wreckage of an exploratory ship which had over 10 mellenium become an underground haven for the survivors decendants. The warrior sat staring at a the empty suits of his battle brothers who had falleen over them many mellenium protecting the people from Ork invasions. He had somehow survived 10,000 years and was all but done. His muscles had atrophied and he was near insane from the long years and some sort of combined consiousness that emcompased his lost brothers. The current day Salamanders comended his soul to the big E and took his Gene Seed and the collection of armour back to Nocturne. Though the warrior is deceased he lived in a fashion for 10,000 years without artficial aid other than his armour. 

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    • 24.11.158.186 wrote:
      Well, in the Salamanders books they mention an old Salamander that had armor that was extremely old, so, even though he died in the books, he was still probably older than most.

      Gravius was his name. Found by SGT Dak'ir.

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    • Well if you consider Thunder Warriors to be roughly similar to Astartes, then Arik Taranis might possibly be the oldest superhuman warrior still alive by the 41st Millenium, although his recent actions haven't exactly been noted in the lore. He's likely still hiding out on Terra.

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    • if Arik Taranis is still alive, then he is without doubt the oldest non-primarch non-xeno non-emperor still alive.

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    • IS Taranis still alive? Because that guy scared me half to death.

      Anyways, Bjorn is cannonly the oldest Astartes, no doubt. Kor Phaeron is still alive, and he was middle aged when he left Colchis. I know he isn't an Astartes, he's just super augmented, but he is still running the Word Bearers. So does he count?

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    • epimetheus::  10000 years in stasis+ several hundred years in a timewarp (founding of grey knights on titan) at the end of the great crusade, that makes him older than the whole lot of them

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    • Ahriman....

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    • From the time of his birth maybe, however: with the number of "days" lived, he cannot hold a candle to Epimetheus. He was in the Warp for too long, time passes differently there (compare to canon source: night lords novels, should be the 2nd one)

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    • Yeah Epimetheus probably is the oldest. If you guys read Pandorax you will understand what Neithan is saying.

      Neithan, assuming you read it, what did you think of the ending of that book? I loved the book but the end was bitter for me. And the Dark Angels Grand Master I thought was very unlikable.

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    • He is a DA, he has secrets to keep, so he has to be unlikeable because he has to ruthlessly guard them.

      (Listen to their Audio Drama once, it is the same thing, the DA are not Salamanders.)

      I listened to the audiobook about a year ago and read the book recently.

      To me the ending is fine, it drives the story of w40k forwards and has a decent binarism. (I do not want to spoiler anything here)

      Though as far as w40k is considered, I prefer the Inquisitor books or cain and Gaunt.

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    • Well it is before the 13th Black Crusade, so doesn't really drive the story forward, but I know what you mean. I enjoyed the read, don't get me wrong, but it had things that I didn't like, including the capture in the end, as I said, but also things like Imperial Fist traitors and White Consuls traitors among the ranks of Abbadon and Huron. Common, the White Consuls are hard boiled loyalists, there shouldn't be any traitors coming from them or the Fists. Stupid! Also the inquisitor who in the beginning has the feral worlders worship her, one of the main characters but I'm forgetting her name now. She was good in the rest of the book, but because of that crime she shouldn't of have survived for long. Also very stupid. And a couple of annoyances, since I am more or less following the space marines battles series, there are a few rehashed ideas that I see in this one, like the dying navigator/psyche sending the last ditch call that saves the day.

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    • Traitors can come from all ends of the spectrum, we find them amongst Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Raven Guard... no genetic line is safe. Becoming a traitor is more about the ego over the group than anyhting else, as we see f.e. in Corpulax, the former Consecrator (basiccally original DA Legion with tons of relics)

      @ Feral Worlders: that was no Inquisitor or Interrogator, that was a member of the retinue. We all know that that was for a higher purpose and that justifies it. (also please do not spoiler the material that much, it would not be for to the others.)

      If you talk about that Admiral, he was captured and tortured, skill makes him a worthwhile prey

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    • Kor Phaeron would surely be among the very oldest traitor marines.

      In terms of loyalist marines who haven't been caught in the warp or incarcerated into a dreadnought, in Codex Angels of Death there is a special character called Sergeant Cleutin who was a Veteran Space Marine Sergeant when Commander Dante was a scout, and rumoured to be ancient. He is still an active marine as far as we know.

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    • Actually that is very unlikely.

      If we look at sources like http://baddice.co.uk/primarch-discovery-order/

      we find a rough order of when what Primarch has been found.

      The Crusade lasted a bit longer than 200 years, maybe up to 250 (until the Isstvaan stuff).

      Lorgar was found after  Lion el Johnsson.

      Johnson was one of the later primarchs to be found, ~ at best 60 years before the GC ended. (the exiled Dark Angels were exiled for 50 years and that happened after their first major campaign and ended during the heresy.

      Kor Phaeron was too old for getting the gene-seed, he also was old enough to have become the "teacher" of Lorgar in religious matters. We also know that Colchis was a feudal world, aka pre industrial --> people did not grow very old there. We also know that 7 years after the wars of faith on colchis began, the emperor came and Kor Phaeron received his implants.

      Lorgar was raised by Kor Phaeron,l who was a priest in the main temple of Colchis, we know that Primarchs grow quickly.

      So what do we know:  Kor Phaeron was a priest --> 20-30 years old as guess, maybe a decade more if we add some seniority, which is actually never mentioned).

      if we add the 7 years betweenm the wars of faith on colchis and him receiving implants and add what 3-5 years for raising the primarch before the outbreak of the war, we get, at best an age of 50 for Kor Phaeron.

      This will put him at a birth of earliest: GC year 150

      Before that you have: 200000 Terran born first founding Astartes, all Astartes that can remember being part of the personal retinue (prior to the coming of the Emperor) of:

      Horus – XVI Legion Astartes ‘Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus’ --> Abbaddon, Falcus
      Leman Russ – VI Legion Astartes ‘Space Wolves’ --> 13th great company
      Fulgrim – III Legion Astartes ‘Emperor’s Children’--> Lucius (Terran born) f.e.
      Magnus – XV Legion Astartes ‘ Thousand Sons’
      Peturabo – IV Legion Astartes ‘Iron Warriors’
      Lion El’Jonson – I Legion Astartes ‘Dark Angels’ --> Zahariel, Luther, Astelan


      Not even mentioning that Kor Phaeron is no Astartes in the first place.

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    • On the topic of Traitors, do note that it's been stated somewhere or other that every Chapter except the Grey Knights (naturally) has had them. Even the loyal First Founders, as every Legion on every side of the Heresy canonically had a few guys who went to the other side.

      Can't find an actual source at this time but I've seen this floated around somewhere and claimed as canon.

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    • Here is the official order of rediscovery of the Primarchs by GW: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Primarchs

      I think that the oldest (or one of) Chaos SM will be Ahzek Ahriman from the Thousand Sons Legion. He was born on Terra in the 30th Millennium and fought alongside the Emperor at the start of the Great Crusade.

      The other choice is Merir Astelans from the Dark Angels (a fallen one), who was among the first Astartes of the I Legion at the time of its founding. At the other hand after the Fall of Caliban Astelan was sucked into the warp and emerged only in second half of 41st Millenium.

      The man who longest live outside of warp will be probably Luther, since he is trapped in a cell in the Rock's dungeons from the destruction of Caliban. But technicaly he is not a space marine but an very augmented human.

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    • I just thougt, if Constantin Valdor survived the Heresy, he could he 10,000 years old....

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    • Kor Phaeron is an Astartes! After all he's been through you guys say he isn't an astartes. He lost his aunt, he went through a divorce. He raised a primarch. His partner (no homo) turned out to be a user, a cheater, and now he's going through a custody battle. All you people care about is.. readers and making money off of him. HE'S AN Astartes! (crying now) What you don’t realize is that without Kor Phaeron the HH wouldn't of have happened! He's making you all this grim dark and all you do is write a bunch of crap about him. He hasn’t performed on stage in years. His war cry is give me more for a reason because all you people want is MORE! MORE-MORE, MORE: MORE!LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are lucky he even preaches for you BASTARDS! LEAVE Kor Phaeron. ALONE!..Please. Fulgrim talked about professionalism and said if Kor Phaeron was a professional he would’ve pulled it off no matter what. Speaking of professionalism, when is it professional to publicly bash someone who is going through a hard time. LEAVE HIM ALONE!(lol)

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    • Lucius could be arguerd amongst the oldest, as he is also Terran Born.. Merir Astelan is still alive and is probably older than Luther, still none hold a candle to Epimetheus.

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    • 124.181.253.240 wrote: There was a Salamader Space Marine called Gravius of Heresy era found by SGT Dak'ir of the Salamanders Nick Kyme's trilogy. Gravius sat imobile in the wreckage of an exploratory ship which had over 10 mellenium become an underground haven for the survivors decendants. The warrior sat staring at a the empty suits of his battle brothers who had falleen over them many mellenium protecting the people from Ork invasions. He had somehow survived 10,000 years and was all but done.  

      Sounds interesting. If this was a Terran, pre discovery of Horus, marine, he could take the second place title for sure. After Epimetheus, who was himself likely a Terran Death Guard originally, and his Warp shenanigans of course.

      I see what you mean about Traitors coming from all Legions/chapters, but the Consuls I imagined as uncorruptable. I think in Architect of Fate there is mention of something about that. Anyway, it happened, they have at least one traitor now.

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    • 62.226.242.180 wrote: zahariel of the dark angels.. simply because he spent ~ 10 millenia in hibernation on pandorax and in m 30 or m31 he went to titan and titan was psychiccally removed from the universe, prolonging his life by another 1 or 2 centuries ( by the time the DA were found)

      Who is this? That sounds like Epimetheus?

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    • Epimetheus was a Fallen Angel Psyker, aka: Zahariel

      It is hinted at that a lot during "Pandorax"

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    • That makes sense. I'm not very familiar with Dark Angels. And its ben a bit since I read it I guess.

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    • Speaking of the Dark Angels, Cypher is quite old, he was around during the fall of Caliban and during the Horus Heresy. While it is true that Cypher has probably spent some time in the warp, it seems like is uncorrupted physically and has spent lots more time in realspace as well, technically this could make him the oldest Space Marine who has had a certain (x) amount of time in realspace?

      Luther as well, but he's not actually even Astartes, he was to old to recieve the Astartes organs at the time, so essentially he's the oldest human, and non-Astartes still alive, assuming no Thunder Warriors are. (Arik Taranis, as I have said before is most likely alive still).

      @Aldaron the Hunter, First Chaplain Erebus was actually the idealist behind the Horus Heresy, but it was Kor Phaeron who directed Lorgar toward holy enlightenment.

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    • @MasterofAgony I personally think that Arik Taranis survived the heresy and 10,000 years on Terra. Remember after the Outcast Dead he got the Space Marine organs that would enable him to live a long life, so assuming that he survived the heresy he would be the oldest living transhuman in the Warhammer 40k Universe 

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    • Cypher is not older than any Terran born Astartes, as he was one of the youngest survivors of the Knights of Lupus.

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    • I always giggle at these threads, the thousand sons get no love, ahriman was one of the first astartes and is still very much alive and mostly unmutated, he has not been in stasis and has been active all his days, he is older than the primarks as well i do believe.

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    • 213.123.190.7 wrote:
      I always giggle at these threads, the thousand sons get no love, ahriman was one of the first astartes and is still very much alive and mostly unmutated, he has not been in stasis and has been active all his days, he is older than the primarks as well i do believe.

      How exactly is Ahriman older than the Primarchs? I'm pretty sure that when the Emperor made the Primarchs, Ahriman did not even exist...

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    • that will probably depend on recruitment of Ahriman versus "birth" of primarchs.

      alas: gestation of the primarchs was begun prior to space marines creation, howeve: how much time did theyx spend in the warp.  f.e. Lorgar was pretty young when they  started his campaign to planetary rule, same for Corx or Guilliman and so on.

      there could easily be Marines form terra in the legions that have been born before their primarchs.

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    • Has anybody here heard about Azech Arhiman who was born on Terra before the unification wars? No eh? Ok...

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    • cannot be as azekh was inducted into the legions. if he was born before the unification wars he would have been too old to be inducted.


      oldest alive are either the Grey Knights GM from Pandorax or Merir astelan (as he is one of the first inductees into the first Legion)

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    • Just got in on this, and sorry if this has been brought up have not read entire line, but wouldn’t you have to separate loyalist from traitor marines? One has the advantage of living in the warp where time is of little use. And has anyone brought up the revived GUilliman? And ARE marines immortal? Their average life spans running 200 to 500 years on average before the water and tear of war finally killing them? That’s what I thought. Astelan seemed to have lived a long time without spending much of it in the warp like many of the Fallen. Just a thought

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    • Oh, and while I’m here can someone please explain Luther and Kor Pharon? Technically not astartes, just genetically enhanced but still alive and well? How is their longevity explained? The warp? Luther isn’t even in the warp but deep inside the rock? (Sorry for spelling, busted phone and on the road-not driving of course) and 40k fans ROCK!!!!

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    • blessings of chaos



      guilliman spent several millennia in a stasis field, time did not move forward for him,/he did not experience anyhting during that time/live so he is what a couple of centuries old and that is it.

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